The Truth of the Assembly
and other
Ministry by H. F. Nunnerley

1. Firstly, we come into it in the way of light, as Exodus 15: 13-17 suggests:
   • "Thou hast guided them by thy strength unto the abode of thy holiness … Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance".

2. Secondly, in the book of Psalms we may see how we come into it as the fruit of experience; reaching the truth of the assembly in an experimental way. So that we are brought to
   • a "city of habitation", where we may "exalt him also in the congregation of the people, and praise him in the session of the elders", Psalm 107: 7, 32.

3. Thirdly, in the Acts of the Apostles, we come into it as the fruit of divine teaching. The ministry of Barnabas having established the saints in relation to the truth of the kingdom and the circle of christian fellowship,
   • Paul is brought in, and the result of his teaching is that the saints were formed into an assembly.

It is open to everyone of us, even the youngest, to bear assembly features as thus taught.

W.J.H. Perhaps you would say what you mean by having part in the assembly in a practical way?

H.F.N. It is easy enough to view ourselves as a congregation, and come together and expect certain persons to sustain the ministry, and so on.

• But the Lord would touch the heart of the very youngest, so that each might feel that he or she is a component part of the assembly, and be prepared to shoulder responsibility, and take an intelligent part in the service and privilege of the assembly.

• It is an immense gain to any city, or to any local gathering of saints, when every brother and sister is fully committed to the Lord. So that their interests are wholly bound up with the service and life of the assembly – that which is the chief interest of the Lord upon earth today.

• It is the Lord's mind that every other interest should be subservient to the assembly, and that that should be paramount.

J.S.D. What God has done in the overthrow of the enemy, as typified at the Red Sea, should touch our hearts and impress us with the great end He has before Him.

H.F.N. That is, that we should make Him a dwelling,

• "This is my God, and I will glorify him;" [or, 'make him a dwelling', see note e] "My father's God, and I will extol him", Exodus 15: 2.

• This refers to the tabernacle, which was built as the fruit of the devotedness of God's people. They had been liberated from Egypt, brought into covenant relationship with God, and the outcome of that is that they prepare Him a habitation.

• Then the second reference in verse 13,
  • "Thou by thy mercy hast led forth the people that thou hast redeemed; Thou hast guided them by thy strength unto the abode of thy holiness".

• This has reference to the assembly as in 1 Corinthians 1: 2, "the assembly of God which is in Corinth" – the assembly viewed as the abode of divine holiness.

• Then in verse 17, we are brought, in this song, to the very choicest thought of the assembly as
  • the "mountain of thine inheritance, The place that thou, Jehovah, hast made thy dwelling, The Sanctuary, Lord, that thy hands have prepared".

• So we get light as to the assembly at this early stage, leading on to the full light of our Ephesian position, that is, the light of all the counsels of God, typically coming out in this wonderful song.

G.A.v.S. It is important that each individual should make every personal interest subservient to this great thought, that he may be contributory to the assembly, the true dwelling place or habitation of God.

E.E.S.L. The last place to which you referred says, "The place that thou, Jehovah, hast made thy dwelling", showing that the tabernacle was not merely something contributed to in material and work, but that God's people were themselves the dwelling place and have part in it.

H.F.N. Not only are we contributors to enrich and build up the tabernacle, the assembly, but when we come to Ephesians it is really what is for God.

• The result of the ministry should not merely be that the saints are edified, but that in every locality there might be something more for God, so that the divine service might be enriched as the result of our coming together.

G.A. That would make a great appeal to our hearts, for there is what is for God in the saints being together, apart from anything that may transpire or that may have been said.

R.S. The song of Moses and the children of Israel, brings out that there is that in which God delights to dwell, that is, the praises of His people.

H.F.N. Exactly; so every brother and sister is to be a contributor in relation to the assembly, as pictured in the tabernacle system.

• There were not only the contributions of the men – every man whose heart prompted him was to bring gold, silver, etc., but the women, the sisters, and the principal men, the princes, were also to contribute.

• Then there is what the Lord gives sovereignly in the way of gift. One would desire that we might all accept the principle of responsibility to contribute, so as to enrich the assembly.

S.E.E. Does the reception of divine light produce these promptings of love that would desire that God should have a habitation?

H.F.N. Yes; so that each might take an affectionate and intelligent part in relation to the service of the assembly.

E.E.S.L. Your reference to the sisters indicates that the contributions are not merely in what is audible?

H.F.N. Quite so. It is very beautiful in that connection that the first thing the women contributed was the blue, Exodus 35: 25. I suppose Mary of Magdala served in this way when she carried the Lord's message in John 20 to the disciples.

W.J.H. There is a tendency with many to look upon redemption and some sense of deliverance from the world as the end, rather than the Lord in grace taking us up in view of His pleasure.

H.F.N. That is so indeed. What follows here is that they are in accord with the thought of being brought to the abode of God's holiness. One would like to give an impression to all of what it is to come there.

• Many will stand for purity of walk and even purity of doctrine as far as they know, but unless we get an impression of the abode of God's holiness we shall never be rightly exercised about the purity of our associations.

S.E.E. Verse 13 speaks of their being "led forth", and verse 17, of their being brought in. What is suggested in this?

H.F.N. Corinthians answers to verse 13, that is, we have a company of people brought out of a corrupt and idolatrous world, to form the assembly of God which is in Corinth

• Being brought in to the mountain of God's inheritance, verse 17, views the assembly from the divine side. God has taken up His inheritance at the present moment in the saints.

• So that we begin to look at the assembly as presented in Ephesians entirely from the side of divine pleasure, where we can respond to God in His holy nature. We are brought to enjoy the very choicest thoughts of the divine inheritance, to the place where He would plant them, in the mountain of His inheritance.

S.E.E. It appears a long journey to some of us from what we are brought out of, to what God would bring us into.

H.F.N. Indeed! but do we not get impressions from the Lord in the way of light, even from our conversion? Perhaps it has taken some of us a lifetime to work it out,

• but once a soul has had divine light from God in regard to the assembly in true spiritual power, he will never fit into any earthly system.

J.S.D. You spoke of the progress and expansion there is in these three references to the assembly in Exodus 15, does that correspond to our growing in the knowledge of the truth?

H.F.N. Well, I am sure it does. It is a question of light here, and it took them many years to reach it.

• The defect in Miriam's song, as has been often observed, was that she dwelt only on present grace, with no reference to future glory. So there was only one theme to her song;
  • but when we reach the divine thought of the assembly in spiritual power, we learn to embrace all the divine thoughts.

G.A.v.S. The response of the chorus was not at the full height of the song. If we come short of God's thoughts of the inheritance, there is poverty in our response.

H.F.N. I am sure there is.

A.H. The great difficulty with many is that they are not truly disentangled from the world, so as to be able to sing such a song.

Ques. What position does Moses take here?

H.F.N. He is the Leader; the one who had led them out of Egypt; he would express the authority of God.

G.A.v.S. Would this song be the expression of how the assembly is actually brought out, so that it takes account of itself as completely brought out before it knows what it is to be brought in?

H.F.N. Yes; we leave the world – Egypt – publicly, under the leadership of Christ as represented by Moses.

• We have been, so to speak, baptised to Moses in the cloud, and in the sea; we have publicly left the world, and having done that, we have only one interest.

• The Lord has one chief interest now upon the earth, the assembly. There never has been a time when He had not a supreme interest upon earth, and the man of faith is always in keeping with it.

• If we think of Daniel, God's chief interest in that day was the city of Jerusalem, and so Daniel had his window open towards Jerusalem, and prayed three times a day.

• So the assembly, which is the chief interest of Christ upon earth today, should be our paramount interest. It is to be understood in the ways of God, in the purpose of God, and in the working out of God's testimony.

G.A.v.S. We should take up things more definitely from the point of view of the assembly as a whole, rather than individually as members of a congregation.

H.F.N. Exactly. I do not think any brother or sister will be of true spiritual value in a locality, unless he or she is prepared to accept obligations as being of the assembly.

E.E.S.L. In all our prayers the windows of our soul should be, so to speak, open towards Jerusalem.

J.S.D. To what do you refer in speaking of our publicly leaving the world?

S.E.E. Does this passage suggest that it is an upward movement? "Let us go up".

H.F.N. Yes, morally, it is an upward journey to the house of God; each of the scriptures read suggests that God's house is a place of moral and spiritual elevation above everything in this scene.

W.J.H. It is the point of contact between heaven and earth.

H.F.N. The house of God affords the great delivering element amongst His people, so that they might be lifted above the current religious order of things in christendom, and reach this place of moral and spiritual elevation in their souls.

W.J.H. Do you think the line suggested yesterday is also seen in these three scriptures – the first, light; the second, experience; and the third, teaching? The light of the house of God was given to Jacob; it was a dream that came from God, to tell him what was in His mind; but it was not, at that moment, enjoyed by Jacob.

H.F.N. Exactly. What comes out in the previous part of chapter 35, shows that Jacob had been brought into moral consistency with God's house. We shall never get a divine appearing, unless we are in moral consistency with the God whose house it is. We should all look for this favour of a divine appearing.

J.S.D. Did the question raised with Jacob as to his moral state make way for the appearing?

H.F.N. Yes; it was a question of light, but Jacob answered to it, and was brought into consistency with God's house. So God says,

"Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there; and make there an altar unto the God that appeared unto thee when thou fleddest from the face of Esau thy brother".

• He must go to Bethel to build that altar. While there are no specifications in Genesis in regard to the building of altars, each altar indicated the spiritual measure of its builder. The moment God speaks to Jacob, he said to his household and all that were with him,
  • "Put away the strange gods that are among you, and cleanse yourselves, and change your garments".

• If there is movement in regard to God's house, it first begins in the households of God's people. Everything in the nature of idolatry is to be broken down in our houses.

• Then we need to understand cleansing, such as results from the application of the death of Christ; the water that flowed from His side indicates the power of moral cleansing. The third thing, the changing of our garments, refers to the associations of God's people.

W.J.H. Do you think that with some of us, the idea of reaching the house intelligently, is still a dream? It is a great day for us when we realise that it is an actual, living experience to be known, that we have part in the house of God.

H.F.N. A sister, who had wandered into the world and had married there, was graciously recovered by the Lord. But she then realised that many things in her household that had been gathered while she was away from the Lord were not suitable now.

• She was greatly moved by the Lord's recovering grace, and called her children together, and told them she had wandered from the Lord. Then she said, There are many things in this house which, if the Lord were to come into it, would displease Him.

• Then she took her children with her, and went right through the house: to the bookshelf, to the music, and so on, and they burned the whole lot in the back garden.

• If we really have to do with God, it would affect our whole households. He would call attention to our bookshelves, our music, and many other things. There may be a necessity for a bonfire before some of us come to enjoy the house of God.

A.C. What is the difference between Shechem and Bethel, and the altars at those places?

H.F.N. We have often spoken of Shechem as the half-way house. Jacob set up an altar there, and called it "El-Elohe-Israel", meaning 'God, the God of Israel'.

• It was at Shechem that his daughter became entangled with the daughters of the land, and brought the greatest dishonour upon his household.

• But here, at Bethel, we see a distinct move. Jacob tells his household to put away "the strange gods that are among you, … and the rings that were in their ears, and Jacob hid them under the terebinth that is by Shechem".

• Shechem is referred to in Joshua 24, as a place that is marked by uncompromising decision to adjust all our ways in the light of the house of God. We need this in regard to ourselves and our households or we shall never take this upward move.

G.A. It is very searching, because this entails a constant review of the whole course of our lives. We are not at liberty to disregard any feature. Jacob, no doubt, in his experience, would go over the ground again and again, that he might go forward with God.

H.F.N. It has been truly said, that as coming together to break bread, the meeting really starts when the saints leave their households. We shall never touch the truth of the house of God, and appear in the courts of our God, unless this work of searching has begun in the households of the saints. In Leviticus 23: 17 they were to bring the two wave loaves out of their houses.

B.O.L. It is of the greatest importance that we should see what God had in mind in speaking to Jacob, that He desired to have him in close intimacy with Himself, that His own heart might be gratified. If that laid hold of us, there would be no difficulty with us about idols.

H.F.N. No, I am sure there would not. So with Jacob, it says, "they journeyed". Is not that the key to the chapter? There is definite spiritual movement now. In verse 16 we are told

• "they journeyed from Bethel", and in verse 21,

  "Israel journeyed, and spread his tent".

• Chapter 35 is one of spiritual movement.

A.H. Would that be in contrast to fleeing from his brother Esau? The question of brotherly relations had been faced with Jacob, before this moving upward.

H.F.N. I am sure that is so. Jacob becomes an object of intense interest to God. In the first verse, God spoke to him. Then in verse 5,

• "the terror of God was upon the cities".

• The moment we make a spiritual move, we can count upon divine protection. Then in verse 9, God appeared to him, and next, He changed his name and gave promises; and finally, God "talked with him", which would bring in the thought of intimacy referred to by our brother.

• It is most encouraging that the moment saints begin to make a spiritual move in the direction of the house of God, they become objects of intense interest to divine Persons.

E.E.S.L. Jacob had retained the impression of the house of God he had received twenty-one years before, when he said,

• "How dreadful is this place!", Genesis 28: 17.

• He had changed and could go up there; but he realised the character of the place had not changed, therefore idols could not go up.

Ques. It speaks of what they have in their hands, and in their ears: is it not important that what affects those two members should be given up?

H.F.N. I am sure it is.

L.P.M. God would have His people respond to what He discloses Himself to be. The response is in accord with the revelation of Himself.

H.F.N. And when Jacob got to Bethel,

• "he built there an altar, and called the place El-beth-el; because there God had appeared to him when he fled from the face of his brother".

• Instead of building an altar at Shechem and making himself a centre, linking God with his own things, the true dignity of the house of God comes before Jacob, and he builds an altar to the God of the house of God. One would love to see each one of the brethren moving up to Bethel, and building such an altar.

G.A.v.S. The privilege of this maintained Jacob in movement.

G.A. In the scriptures you have called our attention to, there is a communication in each case. Do you suggest the saints receive communications from God in relation to His house through ministry, or otherwise?

H.F.N. Through ministry mainly; but when we begin to move in relation to the house of God, we receive personal communications from the Lord.

• What follows is that discipline comes into one's house. Many of us, perhaps, in the past have regarded discipline in the way of punishment, but there is no element of punishment in christianity; it comes to us in love.

• We see here, that Rebecca's nurse dies, and was buried under the oak. That is another feature which comes into this chapter of spiritual movement – we get a series of burials. The discipline of God comes in to help us the moment we begin to make a spiritual move.

W.J.H. We can expect the Lord to bring in some kind of sorrow alongside the desire to go up, to help us to break our links with earth.

H.F.N. Yes; and so we read, "And God appeared to Jacob again after he had come from Padan-Aram, and blessed him".

• There is every element of encouragement for each one of us to make this movement in relation to the house of God. He will come in and help us in the way of discipline. One would like to challenge our hearts as to whether we have ever been conscious of having a divine appearing.
  • "God appeared to Jacob … and blessed him".

• I suppose a divine appearing always has in view the house of God.

S.E.E. The pouring of the drink offering upon the pillar that Jacob erected would suggest that through his experience, Jacob had acquired spiritual substance, which would gratify the heart of God.

H.F.N. Yes, indeed. Following on what we are speaking of, we get Jacob's name changed:

• "thy name shall not henceforth be called Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name. And he called his name Israel".

• His name was changed on the eventful night when he wrestled with the angel, but now he is in entire keeping with the change. It is another great moment in the history of a saint when the Lord changes his name.

• Jacob is the first in Scripture to be called a prince, and he appears here in princely dignity in the house of God, with his name changed.

G.A.v.S. What is the relation of the change of name here, and what we get in the previous chapter, when God met him at Peniel?

H.F.N. In the previous chapter, he was not in keeping with it. At that moment Jacob had not princely features.

• One loves to think of the saints moving in princely features in relation to God's house. The idea of a prince in Scripture is one who acquires moral greatness with God and with His people.

• It is not exactly an official position given to him, but a position acquired through secret exercise with God, which befits him to move in moral greatness in the house of God.

W.J.H. We are told of princes of the sanctuary in 1 Chronicles 24: 5 – that is nothing official, is it?

H.F.N. No; we would delight to see every brother and sister adorning the house of God as spiritual princes.

J.S.D. Does the change of name involve the consciousness that while I have to do with the same God as before, I am going to have to do with Him under a new set of circumstances in the future?

H.F.N. Exactly.

G.A.v.S. Why is there not only a change of name of the person, but a change of name of the place? It says, "Jacob came to Luz, which is in the land of Canaan, that is, Bethel".

H.F.N. I suppose it is a great test of our spirituality in the house of God, as to whether we have acquired spiritual ability to name things. I think the Lord has been exercising us of late years, so that we might learn to name things rightly.

S.E.E. As you move towards the house of God, you get confirmation of what has been presented in the way of light, and has attracted you to that spot.

H.F.N. Quite so. God speaks of Himself as "Almighty God", and then gives confirmation:

• "the land that I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land".

• And then God went up from him in the place where He had talked with him. Are we conscious of what it is to be in the house of God as spiritual princes, adorning the house with holy features of Christ, and knowing this privilege of intimacy –
  • "God … talked with him"?

• Later in the book Joseph talked with his brethren, but here we have it indicated that God talked with Jacob.

G.A. Would you tell us why God chooses at this juncture to make Himself known as Almighty God? Would it comfort and strengthen us to recognise afresh that the exercises which confront us are brought to us by the Almighty God, whose resources will be all-sufficient for the exercises of the house of God?

H.F.N. I am sure that is right. In every fresh move the saints make, there is some divine disclosure to our hearts. God confirms the movement by the revelation to us of His name.

G.A. Does the house suggest the place where the accumulation of spiritual exercises and blessings, as indicated with Abraham and Isaac, work out practically in Jacob?

H.F.N. These exercises are brought to fruition in Jacob, and the result is that he sets up a pillar, another great moment in spiritual history.

• Abraham shines as an altar-builder; the great characterising feature of Abraham's faith was that he built altars.

• In connection with Isaac, the great spiritual feature was his digging of wells: opening up divine resources in the Spirit.

• When you come to Jacob, he sets up pillars, which, I take it, is the great witness in relation to God's house of divine grace and faithfulness. So that the assembly is spoken of as
  • "the pillar and base of the truth", 1 Timothy 3: 15.

• Jacob sets up a pillar on Rachel's grave, marking not only the greatness of his affection for Rachel, but the effect of the discipline, and as a witness to God's faithfulness.

A.H. This is a pillar of stone, Genesis 35: 14. God had just gone up from Jacob, renamed Israel, and a pillar of stone in relation to that appearing would indicate a permanent result.

C.F. Is there anything for us in the spiritual movement taking place after the birth of Joseph?

H.F.N. Indeed there is, because it speaks of the beginning of all spiritual movement, when the glory of Christ shines into our souls.

• We have to do with people who are linked up with certain wrong things, and they mourn and even shed tears in connection with them, but yet they do not move out of the conditions. The final call of God is to come out of Babylon –
  • "Come out of her, my people", Revelation 18: 4),

• but people, though groaning and even weeping over things, often do not move. It raises the question, What is it that will produce movement in the people of God?

• Well, the moment some ray of the glory of Christ shines into our hearts – the birth of Joseph was like a ray of light shining into Jacob's soul – then, there is definite movement brought about.

J.S.D. Do I set up a pillar when I come into moral accord with the light that has reached me?

H.F.N. That is it. Jacob sets one up in the place where God talked with him. Here is a man in holy intimacy with God. Think of the favour of God talking with him! – and in that very spot Jacob sets up a pillar,

• and "poured on it a drink-offering, and poured oil on it".

• Jacob was really entering into the sense of the favour of God, and the oil on the pillar denoted that he had come to value what is spiritual.

L.P.M. What would correspond to this in our present setting together as saints? How would it find expression?

H.F.N. I suppose it would be in the way we take part in the service of the house of God, we should pour out our drink-offering.

• A drink-offering was of wine, and was poured out in the sanctuary, and would suggest the joy which marks the saints as ministering in the house of God. You would love to see all the saints there in the sense of divine favour.

S.E.E. In connection with the pillar of stone, would these be landmarks permanently connected with our spiritual history, and an abiding testimony to the way God has become known to us?

H.F.N. Exactly.

W.J.H. How wonderful that there should be a drink-offering for God! Something that would make glad the heart of God in having His people in His house, where He can talk with them. What moments they are when God talks with us!

E.E.S.L. Why do we not read of burnt-offerings here, nor at El-Elohe-Israel?

H.F.N. I suppose the burnt-offering sets forth the ground of our acceptance, and that is hardly the question here.

• The great point is that Israel, on the one hand, is conscious that God is blessing him, and, on the other hand, that he is entirely suitable for God's house. So it is really a question of what God secures for His pleasure in relation to His house.

G.A.v.S. I was wondering if the altar is stressed here rather than the offering on it, in order to bring out Jacob's knowledge of God, rather than any thought of service. The altar in these two instances indicating what he had reached in his own soul.

H.F.N. Yes; the altar here indicates the measure in which I am at liberty in the house of God. We would like to see everyone living in liberty in God's house, conscious that God's face is towards him and on the other side, that he is entirely suitable to God.

A.C. Three times in this chapter we are told Jacob journeyed. Although there is discipline, Jacob makes great spiritual progress, and thus the discipline is really to help him.

H.F.N. Exactly; so it links on with the next scripture we read in Psalm 122;

• "I rejoiced when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of Jehovah".

• This is a movement amongst the people of God. We were suggesting that this would correspond to the thought of the holy Child Jesus.

W.J.H. So glad was He that He remained there when the others went back.

H.F.N. Yes. One thinks of what depth of feeling underlies what the psalmist says here of the gates of Jerusalem; how the Lord Jesus would look upon the company of the godly ones, and say with them,

• "Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem".

L.P.M. The thought of Jerusalem being added here is a development on what is related to the house of God?

H.F.N. Yes, indeed. Would not Jerusalem, in the songs of degrees, represent the assembly in relation to the Lord's universal interests upon earth today; the assembly looked at in the full light of the Ephesian position?

• Whether you are in Europe, or South Africa, or Australia, you discover Jerusalem, wherever the universal interests of Christ are cherished upon earth today.

S.E.E. Wherever you are, it is possible to be in the centre of things.

H.F.N. Quite so. We see here that it is an upward movement,

• "Whither the tribes go up, the tribes of Jah",

  and it was 'Israel's custom', see note c.

• God would give us impressions in regard to His house, which would result in upward, spiritual movement. If we follow the movements suited to the house of God, we shall see that, 'That way is upward still', Hymn 12.

W.J.H. These experiences pursue a kind of educational course, and each touch of the divine Presence in the house of God raises a challenge with us.

A.H. It is a great thing to see the tribes in movement, is it not?

H.F.N. I suppose that is seen in our local settings. It is a great joy to visit a place, and perhaps a few years later, to return and find that the saints have moved together in a spiritual way.

G.H.W. Being "compact together" would indicate the way in which we are set together in mutual relationships and affections.

W.J.H. That is seen in the extension and increase of the meetings for fellowship of a general character. The Lord has been working in households, then He works in localities, and then the saints desire to enjoy fellowship in a wider way.

H.F.N. Yes, and one loves to think of what God gets from all this. The tribes go up according to their custom; there was an upward movement on the part of the people of God.

L.P.M. It is the "tribes of Jah", not the tribes of Israel.

H.F.N. Then follows, "there are set thrones for judgment, the thrones of the house of David".

• It is a great principle in the assembly, that we should recognise the thrones for judgment. It would correspond to what is set out in 1 Corinthians. There are thrones of judgment, but it adds,
  • "the thrones of the house of David".

• Would it not greatly help us to remember this connection of the thrones for judgment, with the one who had the heart of a shepherd? The prophet Zechariah speaks of the One who sits and rules as a priest upon his throne, Zechariah 6: 13; and Isaiah speaks of the one who shall rule as being a Father, Isaiah 9: 6.

• Does it not greatly help us in considering the throne, to consider the One who sits upon it? He has the heart of a Shepherd and of a Priest. Priestly sensibilities are to govern the administration of God's house, combined with the affections of a father.

• Those who exercise the administration of the house of God should be desirous that these features should be present.

W.J.H. That is very helpful. How the apostle Paul illustrates this. We can see what a shepherd's heart he had, even when dealing with the situation at Corinth. What a father's heart and affections he had; what a priest's outlook, and yet he was one of the brethren.

Ques. Why is it "thrones" – in the plural?

W.J.H. You suggest Luke 24 in connection with the reading meeting, because the two are talking together, and afterwards they were relating in conversation with the others what had happened?

H.F.N. That is it exactly. The fact is emphasised in Luke that "as they were saying these things, he himself stood in their midst".

• It suggests a mutual state of things amongst the brethren. When the two returned, they found the eleven, who represent divine authority. It would sweep away the whole spirit of democracy from us, if we "found the eleven".

• And when they had found them, they were speaking of the excess of grace that the Lord had shown to an erring disciple.
  • "The Lord is indeed risen and has appeared to Simon".

• What follows indicates that the most obscure amongst the people of God, those whom we would account as almost unknown brethren, can enrich the saints with this precious contribution that the Lord had appeared to them in the breaking of bread.
  • Then it says, "as they were saying these things, he himself stood in their midst", verse 36.

W.J.H. The forty days of the Lord's sojourn here in resurrection before He ascended would accustom them to His appearing as they were together. The forty days would cover all such meetings as you have referred to.

H.F.N. That is really the kernel of what one has in mind; and, as you say, during the forty days the Lord was coming in and going out amongst His people.

L.P.M. Has the return to Jerusalem, in verse 33, some bearing on the matter? Must the thought of Jerusalem be recognised, as well as the eleven? Jerusalem being the divine centre of rule, the reading meeting would be no insignificant matter, viewed in the light of that.

H.F.N. That is important. When we leave our homes to go to the reading meeting, do we expect the Lord to come into the meeting? Often at the beginning of the meeting a great deal is said,

• but there comes a definite point when it is felt that the Lord comes in, and then the spiritual flow of the meeting begins.

J.S.D. We would normally start the reading, as having to do with the Lord personally ourselves, as these two had.

H.M. How do we find the eleven, today?

H.F.N. We recognise the great thought of divinely given authority. Of course the eleven here were specially appointed by the Lord Himself, but the authority exists just as much today as in the early apostolic days.

• Some of us were saying recently that the meeting is like a river, which makes its own bed or channel. But if you turn a reading into a canal, you lose the flow of life. It is a good question to raise in our minds, Are our reading meetings canals, or are they rivers?

E.E. Would the Lord open our understandings today?

H.F.N. Yes, indeed, and we should get some distinct illumination from Him; we should expect some definite ray of His glory to shine into the hearts of the saints. We should never have a mere ordinary reading meeting.

E.E.S.L. Is there any way in which we could facilitate this and remove impediments?

H.F.N. With those in Luke 24 there was respect for the Lord's authority, and a mutual state among the brethren.

• It is a great thing in a reading meeting that, while we recognise the main stream, we look for a spirit of mutuality, so that all might be contributors.

S.E.E. You depend upon the Lord to open the Scriptures as He opened them to these two?

H.F.N. I suppose the Spirit would take that place today. In Luke 24 the Lord expounded the Scriptures, and opened their understandings, that they might understand the scriptures, speaking to them of the law of Moses, and the prophets, and the psalms.

• But I suppose that in the assembly, the Spirit has taken up that service.

W.J.H. Say a little more about what you meant by a reading meeting being like a canal sometimes.

H.F.N. I think if we follow a verse by verse study of a chapter, we may miss the living thought that the Lord would present.

• We are often held by a verbal study of the scripture, instead of allowing the river to make its own channel; wherever the river comes it brings fertility.

W.J.H. You do not know just where it will branch.

H.F.N. Quite so. A question, which is the outcome of an exercise with God, may profitably occupy the rest of a meeting as we seek to follow it up.

G.A.v.S. Every godly exercise, whether in brothers or sisters, will contribute to the general spring of what the Spirit is giving us in our reading meeting.

H.F.N. Exactly. And another feature that the Lord would develop is the spirit of enquiry. If we were prepared to wait upon the Lord with dependent spirits, we would get richer impressions of Christ, and there would be room for enquiry on the part of the younger brethren.

G.A.v.S. Taking up the thought you suggested of a river, every individual exercise really adds to the stream, bringing freshness and fulness to what is there.

E.S.S.L. Would you distinguish between the part the Spirit takes, and that which the Lord takes in a reading?

H.F.N. We would recognise the lordship of Christ. You could not have a reading meeting unless the saints were in subjection.

• John 16: 13-15 makes clear the relative services of the Lord and the Spirit in such a meeting. The Spirit speaks what He hears from Christ. He receives from Him, and guides us into the truth. He uses the saints in this, so that we have to make room for His service amongst us.

L.P.M. What is the thought in the Lord standing in their midst, Luke 24: 36?

H.F.N. We read in Genesis 37 that the sheaves of Joseph's brethren bowed down, while his sheaf "remained standing". The Lord is ever the object of reverence and affection to His people.

W.J.H. Do you think it might denote that the Lord is prepared to lead us further?

H.F.N. Yes, indeed; and the meetings would be enriched if there were readiness to be led on, and we were more exercised to realise the Lord's part in the meeting.

G.A. The two who came into the city brought the present exercise forward. The issue of the hour for the saints was resurrection. Would not we expect that in every reading there would be spiritual contributions relevant to present exercise?

H.F.N. That is right and very important. It would give a living character to our meetings. We might look at the gospel of Mark next.

• The Lord's first visit to the temple in chapter 11 was one of divine inspection. That is the first thing to be noted by those who take up the burden of the Lord's interests: we have to face divine inspection.
  • It says, "He entered … into the temple; and having looked round on all things".

• As the Lord comes into a place, and looks round, He takes account of all that professes to be His in the place, and looks at the actual conditions there.

W.J.H. The word "temple", referring to the outer buildings, would confirm the thought that it has to do with the matter of care and responsibility, rather than worship and the service of praise.

H.F.N. Yes, it stands in contrast to what is said in Chronicles, where it speaks of the inner house, and the place of the mercy seat. This, as you say, refers to the outer buildings; the place where matters are administered for the Lord.

G.A.v.S. Would such inspections as these disclose to exercised hearts what really is the source of the disorder that has come in?

H.F.N. They would. If we were more prepared to say, as the psalmist did,

• "Search me, O God", Psalm 139: 23,

• and to come under divine inspection, there would be a revival that would afford the greatest pleasure to the Lord.

W.J.H. This looking on everything is the Lord's indication that there are things to be judged, and it is for each to see what it is, and judge it. When He comes back, He deals with it Himself in Mark, because they failed to take advantage of His scrutiny.

H.F.N. That is it exactly. It says in verse 15, "And they come to Jerusalem, and entering into the temple".

• The Lord had to take things in hand Himself, and He began to cast out those that sold and bought in the temple. Is not that a challenge to us all here? We might say, I would never do such things; but if we really knew our own hearts, we would recognise how easily we may traffic in the holy things of God.

• If there is the least desire to be a leading brother, or sister, in the meeting, that is like trafficking in the holy things of God.
  • So it goes on to say that He "overthrew the tables of the moneychangers and the seats of the dove-sellers".

    What a corrupt state of things was in the temple!

• It is a solemn challenge to us who are living at long distances – I am not speaking materially – from where the Lord has placed His name. In principle, when we get there, we have to change our money, and that brings about all this corruption.

• If we lived close to where God has placed His name, we should be able to employ the current coin. There is the current coin among the brethren, which it is our business to circulate.

W.J.H. That makes it clear. By being at a distance, you would mean they are out of touch with what the Lord is doing at the moment, in affection and interest and spirit?

A.H. The fact that the Lord went out and came back again, gave time to adjust things; He gives us time to adjust ourselves according to His mind.

H.M. The spirit of Abigail would save us from ambition. She says,

• "Behold, let thy handmaid be a bondwoman to wash the feet of the servants of my lord", 1 Samuel 25: 41.

  That spirit would preserve us all.

H.F.N. That is right. So here, the Lord teaches them the true character of the house of God, saying,

• "Is it not written, My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations? but ye have made it a den of robbers".

• That is the solemn issue that the Lord would raise with us. We may deal with His interests, but are we misrepresenting God in it? We see as a result of this corrupt dealing in divine things how God was misrepresented, and His house, instead of being a place of prayer for all nations, became a den of robbers.

E.E.S.L. While we have to maintain the Lord's rights, and see that they are paramount everywhere, there is a very great danger that we should misrepresent God by the spirit of exaction.

H.F.N. Yes. What our brother called attention to is important. We have first the divine inspection, but when the Lord comes to take up things Himself He goes to the root of the whole matter with us.

• Before we come to the third visitation we have some beautiful instruction. That is when Peter called attention to the drying up of the fig tree. The Lord emphasised the thought of faith in God. The dispensation is in faith, and everything in the house of God is to be governed by faith.

• The next thing is prayer, the Lord emphasises the thought of prayer,
  • "All things whatsoever ye pray for and ask, believe that ye receive it".

• This is a great feature of God's house; and the third thing is the spirit of forgiveness:
  • "when ye stand praying, forgive".

• These three things come in after we have met the searching and penetrating gaze of the Lord, and after He had cleansed the temple, so that He might bring about a state of things pleasurable to Himself.

G.A.v.S. Why does the question of authority arise here, Mark 11: 28-33?

H.F.N. The authority is questioned today; it is a very serious thing. It was a most serious thing to question the authority of the Lord.

• He answers them by bringing forward what we may call a fixed principle. He asks them a question in regard to the ministry of John, Was it of heaven, or of men? That is a fixed principle by which to decide the authority of a thing,
  • "was it of heaven, or of men?"

W.J.H. So that if persons cannot discern whether the thing is of heaven or of men, there is no value in speaking any more.

H.F.N. The Lord Himself is the great model that we should seek to follow.

In relation to the scripture in Matthew 18, it says,

• "Again I say to you, that if two of you shall agree on the earth concerning any matter, whatsoever it may be that they shall ask, it shall come to them from my Father who is in the heavens. For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them".

• Referring this to the prayer meeting, we see that the Lord would give us a definite sense of His presence as together in relation to the taking up of His interests.

• The "two or three" are of the assembly, not any two or three taken indiscriminately, and of such, as together, the Lord says, "there am I in the midst of them".

W.J.H. It is important on such occasions, as having the Lord's interests before us, that we should ask. A great defect in meetings for prayer, is that our prayers often lack definite requests, and become more or less statements of facts.

H.F.N. Yes; if we limited ourselves to one or two requests that have been a burden to us, there would be more power, and more incense too, in our prayer meetings.

E.E.S.L. A greater proportion of the saints would be present at the prayer meetings, if it were generally recognised that the Lord was in the midst.

H.F.N. They would be greatly augmented. How few would miss a meeting if they really believed this word,

• "There am I in the midst of them"!

B.O.L. Is not the matter of agreement essential? "If two of you shall agree".

H.F.N. Quite so. It is impossible to pray aright unless it is a prayer of agreement.

L.P.M. Do the 'Amens' of the brothers enter into that?

H.F.N. They do. The 'Amens' of the brothers have been likened to the cymbals in the book of Chronicles. As one moves about there seems to be a sad lack of cymbals in the prayer meetings.

• It is not only for the brothers to say 'Amen', but it is incumbent also upon the sisters. It says,
  • "Let all the people say, Amen".

W.J.H. I suppose the sisters would say it just as they sing? No sister with right instincts would ever want her voice to stand out in the singing; and the same with the 'Amens'. If the brothers said 'Amen' it would give more room for the sisters to quietly bring in their quota.

H.F.N. Exactly; if every sister said 'Amen', the quiet utterance of the 'Amens' would greatly increase in volume.

J.K.J. Would you say some more about the one or two requests?

H.F.N. We should each come with at least one or two burdens upon our spirits.

• If you meet a brother on Wednesday, and say to him, Well, what did you pray for on Monday night? he may have difficulty in telling you. He may have compassed the whole earth, but never touched anywhere.

• Our prayers should be definite and brief, and there should be a directness about them. There would be more prayers, and the saints would come to the prayer meeting in a spirit of positive gladness.

J.K.J. If you were sensible of the Lord's presence, you would not make many requests in public.

H.F.N. No, and we should consider one another. In a meeting where there are fifteen or twenty brothers, should we not give opportunity for each one to pray?

• We are getting away from the subject, but I feel the Lord would just stir us up. It is a sorrowful fact that in some localities on the Lord's day mornings and at the gospel, you find a room full, but a mere handful on Monday night.

• The prayer meeting is a test as to the spiritual state of the meeting.

S.E.E. What is the object of the Lord's presence on that occasion?

H.F.N. To give His support, and as we read in Revelation, to

• "give efficacy to the prayers of all saints at the golden altar", Revelation 8: 3.

• There are no prayer meetings like those occasions when the room is full of incense.

A.H. Would the statements as to the golden altar help us? In Exodus 30: 6 it was before the veil. In 1 Kings 6: 22 it was by the oracle. In Revelation 8 it is before the throne. If we have these three thoughts before us in prayer, there will be power and definiteness.

H.F.N. That is something well worth thinking over.

Shall we now turn to John 20? I suppose there is no scripture with which we are more familiar.

• We read the message through Mary at the beginning of this meeting. She was a special vessel to convey the greatest light that the Lord has ever given to the assembly. There is a fulness in that message, which we shall never compass.

• Attention has been called to the fact that Luke says the Lord stood in their midst, but in John 20, we get the highest thought in regard to the assembly, what is entirely spiritual and heavenly.
  • "Jesus came and stood in the midst".

• Let us weigh over the thought of the first day of the week, and Mary's message, and we shall get some impression of their import.

W.J.H. Is His presence there in view of making the message effective in the hearts of the saints assembled?

H.F.N. Exactly. Often we miss that – the very best of what the Lord has for us.

• In our morning meetings we often come to this point, and yet mistakenly address the Lord as on the throne, in relation to His official glory, instead of entering with Him into the realm of sonship.

• The great point in John 20 is to go higher, and if we really believed that the Lord was "in the midst" we should not address Him as on the throne.

• Have we been sufficiently impressed with the thought that "Jesus came and stood in the midst"? Do I address the Lord as upon the throne, or am I conscious that He is in the midst? It would alter the whole character of the meeting, and instead of continuing to address the Lord, we should enter into the reality of
  • "my Father and your Father, … my God and your God".

L.P.M. What relation has the retaining of sins, and the remission of them to this?

H.F.N. Is not the heavenly administration carried out by such a company? In John, the administration would be of a spiritual character, and would bear an entirely heavenly colour.

B.O.L. If things are normal in the assembly, would we count on His presence as the saints come together, or is it necessary to wait intelligently?

H.F.N. I suppose, normally speaking, the Lord is with us in a general way in support when we come together; but in the specific way spoken of in John, the affections of the saints have to be liberated first.